The Q&AI Podcast
From navigating the ethical complexities of AI to leveraging AI in use cases spanning industries like healthcare, education, and security, The Q&AI delivers actionable insights that empower you to make more informed decisions and drive more strategic innovation. In each episode, Juniper Networks’ Chief AI Officer, Bob Friday, and other guest hosts engage with a range of industry experts and AI luminaries to explore the AI topics that matter most to your business.
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The Q&AI Podcast
Managing AI Adoption in Government
Discover the transformative power of AI in government with our special guest, Jennifer Saha, CEO of Golden Bridge Strategies. Jennifer helps shed light on the differences between traditional AI and generative AI, the impact of AI on jobs and contracts, and the regulatory landscape at state and federal levels.
We also uncover the pivotal role of California's Department of Technology as a central hub for AI development, offering essential resources such as training and risk assessments. Jennifer shares crucial advice for government agencies and vendors preparing to integrate AI technologies, emphasizing the importance of readiness and transparency.
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Key points covered:
Adoption of AI in government: Jennifer Saha, CEO of Golden Bridge Strategies, shares her experience working in both government and the private sector, highlighting the challenges and opportunities of integrating AI into government operations.
Generative AI: Emphasizing the distinction between traditional AI and generative AI, Jennifer notes that generative AI is a revolutionary technology that the government is eager to adopt. That said, the implementation process is slow due to various hurdles.
Job impact: Jennifer believes that AI will not replace jobs in the government sector. Instead, employees will spend more time overseeing AI outcomes rather than generating work themselves.
Regulations and compliance: Jennifer discusses the regulatory landscape for AI in the U.S. and how it compares with Europe. Currently, there is a patchwork of rules across different states and jurisdictions, making it challenging for companies to navigate.
Future of AI in government: Jennifer is optimistic about the future impact of AI on government services and employees. She advises government agencies to get familiar with AI and for vendors to be prepared for transparency and regulatory hurdles.
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Find the transcript and show notes at:
Transcript - https://www.juniper.net/us/en/the-feed/topics/ai-and-machine-learning/the-q-and-ai-navigating-ai-adoption-in-government-insights-from-jennifer-saha.html
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Where to find Jennifer Saha?
Website - https://goldenbridgestrategies.com/about/jennifer-saha/
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jen-saha
Where to find Bob Friday?
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobfriday/
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We hope you enjoyed this episode!
Bob: Hello and thanks for joining us on another episode of Q&AI podcast. Today I'm joined by Jennifer Saha, CEO of Golden Bridge Strategies. And today we're going to be talking about the adoption of AI in government, in particular, the state of California and what regulations could look like both the state and county levels.
Jennifer, before we get started, maybe give the audience a little bit about your background. I know you've been on both the government side and the industry side of the fence.
Jennifer: Sure thing. Thanks for having me today. I served a decade in California state government. I was an appointee for both the Schwarzenegger administrations, as well as Governor Brown's administration.
And I worked a lot on the administrative side of doing business with the government. So first at our department of finance, and then at the state's department of general services, which is procurement oversight, writing all of the manuals and rules and regulations related to selling to the state.
After that, I decided to jump into the private sector, started my company and I'm helping businesses do business with state governments. So, helping them figure out all of the necessary hurdles, rules, regulations, and work on developing their ability to be great partners to our governments.
Bob: Thank you, Jennifer. I know we need all the help we can get on this side of the fence. But anyway, I think maybe you've been spending most of your career on technology on both government and seller. And today we're here to talk a little bit about AI. So maybe we can start with, your definition, kind of a broad topic from your perspective, the definition of AI.
Jennifer: Sure, you're right. It's incredibly broad. And what's funny about it is when working with AI in government, it's sort of all over the map. We just want to know what the government's definition is going to be, right? And even now, it depends on who you're asking, at which department and which agency.
I also think there's a lot of confusion in government and frankly in the industry as a whole, about AI versus, which has been around for decades, we've all been using AI. versus generative AI and the new model of AI. And to me that's what everyone should really be focused on in government. Although I am seeing a lot of spillover when people talk about just AI in general.
Bob: Yeah, that's a good thing. So, you've been through the 80s, 90s, 2000s. You've watched the adoption of cellular, internet, and other technology in the government. Any difference between AI technology and the other technologies we've had to adopt?
Jennifer: My sort of running joke is that technology adoption in government is about 5 to 10 years behind technology adoption by the rest of the world.
If you're using something today in your personal life, you can probably bet that government's going to pick up on it in maybe 5 or so years. I think with generative AI in particular, that adoption curve is really being pressed. Because it is such a new and revolutionary technology that government wants it now.
And very rarely, if government wants something now, are they able to actually implement it now. It just takes a while, and there's plenty of reasons for that, but I think we're really going to see widespread use of generative AI in the next three to five years in governments.
Bob: Yeah, now the other interesting thing, I've seen the World Economic Forum basically say that AI is going to create like 95 million jobs or eliminate 95 million but replaced 83 million more jobs at the California state level. Same thing you think AI is going to create more jobs than it replaces?
Jennifer: I don't think it's gonna replace any jobs. I think unfortunately for the private sector, it's gonna replace a lot of contracts.
So, we're even seeing this happen today. So, if a call center at the state, they already have a vendor on standby for surge and maybe that vendor's contract doesn't get renewed or renewed at the same level as it did before because now they're able to use some generative AI. We have incredibly strong job protections at the state of California, very union heavy.
And there will be no, no jobs eliminated. But what it's going to mean is these people's jobs are fundamentally going to change. They're going to be able to spend their time providing more value and perhaps overseeing the outcomes of generative AI as opposed to trying to generate that work themselves.
Bob: Yeah. Any words of wisdom for the audience on adoption? I know in our space, we work on this Marvis Cloud AI Op stuff, and it's almost hey, we're building things that do cognitive reading skills, almost like learning this trust thing. Do you think the state of California is going through the same exercise of trying to figure out how to learn to trust their AI assistants?
Jennifer: Oh, sure. At the foundation of everything government does is transparency and equity and fairness. So exactly the way that they administer services to all of their citizens is the same way they're going to run a rollout generative AI. And they want assurances from the private sector, from the vendors that are selling them these solutions, that what they're doing is going to cause no harm.
It's really difficult to say, right? It is a little bit of the Wild West right now when it comes to using some of these different models. But the state government at least is ahead of the curve. They're asking for risk models for ratios of risk to reward on how it's going to help their government employees and this ultimately the citizens.
To be able to make sure that what we're putting in place isn't too risky. We're not going to do any harm. We're always going to have a human involved in the review process. We're not going to let generative AI make any decisions. We're just going to use it to be making recommendations to our policy leaders on how we should use these different policies to serve our citizens.
Bob: This is a great lead in to the next discussion around regulations, because, We see what's going on in Europe, right? Europe just came out with their AI Act, which is a very centralized thing for all of Europe. In the US, it looks like we're much more distributed. We're, we don't see our Congress coming out with an AI Act. It looks like the federal, state, counties are all working on different regulations and compliances. What’s your perspective on where we are heading here?
Jennifer: Totally, I mean for a company selling in this industry, Juniper would know better than anyone it's kind of a nightmare. It really is because it, you on whatever jurisdiction rules that you have to follow, you're held accountable for those rules and breaking any of them.
I think that states across the nation right now are putting together sort of a patchwork of AI regulations, rules, legislation is exploding across the United States as to how we're going to reign this in and keep tabs on the beneficial impacts of AI as opposed to the harms. And it does make for an incredibly difficult industry to navigate because at this point it is really a patchwork.
There's pressure on the federal government and on Congress to put something in place that would be national. Technologies don't stop at the borders of a state. But California prides itself on being ahead of the pack. And this technology, we're no different, really. We're putting in place a regulatory structure a legislative structure and a policy structure to implement generative AI, not caring about what else is happening across the United States.
Bob: Yeah. So, I think before the show we were talking about our first driverless Waymo Uber adventures. Mine was in Arizona.
Jennifer: Mine was up the street. Yep.
Bob: Besides figuring out how they did that technology to be, what regulations actually applied to these new drivers? Ubers.
Jennifer: Right. I mean Waymo, they stop, right? They stop at the edge of San Francisco. You can't take this over to Oakland. This is where we're approved to do business. But internet technologies, virtual technologies, SaaS, anything in a cloud doesn't have those types of barriers. So, you really are in a place where you're looking at your specific clients.
In this case, maybe it's a state department or agency and what rules they are requiring you to follow for that. It just means that your regulatory teams, your legal teams are going to be working overtime to make sure that everyone is in compliance.
Bob: But you said so the way more is that actually down to a city level? We're down to each city's developing its own ordinances and old regulations for that.
Jennifer: Yeah, When I was in San Francisco there are different rules on San Francisco Waymo’s than there are on Phoenix Waymo’s or New Mexico Waymo’s. Even that it's tough to get even at a statewide level because every jurisdiction is special where we're unique because we're San Francisco or we’re Phoenix and we can't just have one blanket regulation for everything. I'm not sure it's the best way to go. And it's incredibly difficult to navigate.
Bob: Okay. Now, maybe for California in particular for the audience, any heads-up regulations coming down the path that we should be aware of that the you know, California is always known as the leader in technology and setting the trend.
Jennifer: Yep, we're certainly setting a trend here. We were out very early, our governor was, with an executive order addressing AI and its use in government but also some of the requirements on AI companies that are located in the state, which are numerous. So, my focus, the focus of my clients and the focus of a company like Juniper, for instance, at this point is on selling to the government.
And government loves a good form. There are forms that are filled out with every time you bid on any bid to the state of California. And that asks you what LLMs you're using. If you're using generative AI at all, what risk assessments you've done on those LLMs and those uses. So that can all be taken into account when they're awarding contracts and working on different use cases with you.
Now, if you're bidding on something at the city, San Francisco might have their own set of rules and hurdles that you're gonna go, have to jump through to be able to do business there. So, it is a bit of a patchwork right now. I'm hopeful that we'll get to the place where there is some type of national consensus on how we're going to regulate and use AI in, Government practices, citizen government delivery, but we're not quite there yet.
Bob: Maybe for the audience, anyone's trying to do business here in California around gen AI, AI any words or guidance on where they should go to look? Is there a one stop shop where I can figure out what are the hurdles I need to jump to do this?
Jennifer: So, the state of California has a generative AI site hosted by our department of technology that is the place where you're going to go to find anything from training on how to use AI to those forms that you've got to fill out if you want to sell to government to risk assessments they've done.
There's even a number of proof of concepts underway where we are looking at using generative AI in a number of use cases, everything from call centers to some really cool stuff around even traffic and reducing traffic using generative AI to redirect roadway traffic and stay on top of it. So, some great use cases that are underway doing them all in a very cautious and safe way with sandboxes and using dummy data while we can't use citizen data.
But I'm super optimistic that this is going to just have a huge impact, not just on citizens, but on government workers and how they do their jobs.
Bob: Now for myself and I've been building products for the last 30, 40 years and we've been jumping in the underwriter laboratory hurdle to make sure that what we ship is safe in Europe. I go jump a CE mark hurdle. Do you think that the existing frameworks are going to solve this? These AI problem? Or do you think we need to create a whole new? Testing framework.
Jennifer: Yeah, I'm never for recreating a wheel. And I do think there are a number of government regulatory structures in place already that can just be applied to the AI tools that we're building.
For instance, FedRAMP is out there already and addresses IT Security. There are some CISA ordinances out there that are extremely applicable. So, regulation for the sake of regulation doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I think we need to look at the use cases that we're using this technology for, and then back into what's needed to ensure that those are equitable and safe for use.
Bob: Yeah. So I think, we see the regulations coming down in Europe and we see the state coming down. I think the state governor, the governor of California actually had some few executive orders on this.
Jennifer: Yep.
Bob: I don't know if you want to mention anything about. Where that is headed, what guidance we're getting right now.
Jennifer: We are underway with all of the guidance, all of the technology letters, all of the new forms that we're having to fill out. Those proof of concepts are underway. If those fed out to be successful, you'll see them use more and more across governments. I don't know, we have an AI task force at the state level that includes people from our institutions of higher ed and from the technology industry and I'm seeing those across the nation pop up.
I feel if you give them too much reign, I was sitting with a group of legislators and they said, what can we do? What can we do to help this? And my advice was like, get out of the way a little bit, right? Because it's like unless you're trying to protect us from doing something harmful, which the government's never going to try to do intentionally anyway. A lot of it is just letting these technologies sort their way out in everyday use cases.
Bob: I've kind of, after billings like, give me the hurdles I need to jump in, I'll go jump in. And so, I don't know if you have any visibility on like, when will underwriter laboratory have my AI sticker that, okay, I'm selling some AI product, I've got to go jump a hurdle.
It's getting pretty clear in Europe, right? How they're classifying the risk and, I suspect by next year, I'll have a CE hurdle to go jump.
Jennifer: I do think there's going to be published, widely accepted risk models that everyone will need and know and comply with in the future, but traditional US governments, it'll be a bit of time.
Bob: Jennifer, it has been great having you. Maybe any last words of wisdom, either for the sellers trying to sell this technology to government or for government agencies trying to adopt it.
Jennifer: So, government agencies, government staff, buckle up get ready to do this, take all the trainings that you can possibly consume on how to work with AI in your everyday job.
Get super familiar with it and just know that it's coming and you want to ride that wave, not get swallowed up by it. On the vendor side and on the industry side, when you're looking to work with government and help them to adopt some of these technologies, get your ducks in a row and be ready for the transparency and those hurdles that you're going to have to jump.
Bob: Okay, Well Thank You, Jennifer for joining us. And for the audience, look forward to seeing you at the next episode of Q&AI.
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